# Ep. 525 Gene Callahan Asks: If LLMs Are Thinking, What Are They Thinking About?

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bob-murphy-show-550403/ep-525-gene-callahan-asks-if-llms-are-thinking-what-are-they-thinking-about.md
Podcast: [Bob Murphy Show](https://stenobird.com/podcast/bob-murphy-show-550403)
Published: 2026-08-08T13:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.bobmurphyshow.com/ep-525-gene-callahan-asks-if-llms-are-thinking-what-are-they-thinking-about
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/800e7d11-e289-487c-9b54-1e5b35e77548.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/bob-murphy-show-550403/episodes/ep-525-gene-callahan-asks-if-llms-are-thinking-what-are-they-thinking-about
Duration seconds: 4526

## Resource

Frequent guest Gene Callahan returns to present a talk he's been giving in academic circles, which relies on standard computer science to argue that LLMs can't possibly be thinking "about" the external world in the same way humans do. Economist and philosopher Kevin Vallier joins the discussion.

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## Transcript

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