# S16 E28: Josh Swihart on Zcash & ZODL

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bitcoin-takeover-podcast-724392/s16-e28-josh-swihart-on-zcash-zodl
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bitcoin-takeover-podcast-724392/s16-e28-josh-swihart-on-zcash-zodl.md
Podcast: [Bitcoin Takeover Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/bitcoin-takeover-podcast-724392)
Published: 2026-06-13T17:31:00+00:00
Episode link: https://bitcoin-takeover.com/audio/?name=2026-06-13_s16_e28_josh_swihart_on_zcash_zodl.mp3
Audio file: https://bitcoin-takeover.com/audio/media/2026-06-13_s16_e28_josh_swihart_on_zcash_zodl.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/bitcoin-takeover-podcast-724392/episodes/s16-e28-josh-swihart-on-zcash-zodl
Duration seconds: 6881

## Resource

Josh Swihart is the founder of ZODL: the Zcash Open Development Lab. Basically a for profit reincarnation of the old Electric Coin Company, which inherited the dev teams and projects. During his previous Bitcoin Takeover podcast appearance in November 2024 (S15 E62), Zcash was a struggling privacy project with very little support and a rather disappointing price action. In June 2026, Zcash is the rising star of the cryptocurrency market, with plans to scale to billions of users and ever-improving shielding technology. In this episode, we talk about the good, the bad, and the controversial moments in the recent history of Zcash... and why Bitcoin didn't activate Zerocash yet. Time stamps: 00:01:14 Intro: Josh Swihart returns after 20 months 00:02:07 Why Zcash is "in a class of its own" (and self-defeating) 00:03:28 Shielded note Q: the run on the Orchard pool before Iron Wood 00:05:22 What are shielded pools? Sprout, Sapling, Orchard explained 00:06:26 The Orchard vulnerability found by Taylor Hornby 00:06:48 Why Zcash matters to Bitcoin: Zerocoin, Zerocash, Halo 2 00:09:06 The secret: from near-delisting at $30 to near top 10 00:11:03 Governance battles, killing the dev fund, refocusing ECC 00:13:03 Peacemonger research and focusing on the first 100 users 00:14:09 Keystone, NEAR intents swaps, and shielded pool growth 00:15:23 Reflexivity and the macro case (Canadian truckers, seizures) 00:16:32 Cake Wallet, Vic Sharma, and the ZEC integration recognition problem 00:17:57 The Monero rivalry and the privacy renaissance 00:19:35 "Cypherpunk does not mean criminal": Samourai vs Wasabi 00:23:04 Railgun comparison and why fungibility matters 00:25:02 Zmap, Flexa, and spending shielded ZEC in stores 00:26:21 Buying lunch at Chipotle and a Ford F150 truck with Zcash 00:27:33…

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