# AI Fact or Fiction: The Fable Ban, Tokenmaxxing, Saaspocolypse — With Ara Kharazian

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/big-technology-podcast-197340/ai-fact-or-fiction-the-fable-ban-tokenmaxxing-saaspocolypse-with-ara-kharazian
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/big-technology-podcast-197340/ai-fact-or-fiction-the-fable-ban-tokenmaxxing-saaspocolypse-with-ara-kharazian.md
Podcast: [Big Technology Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/big-technology-podcast-197340)
Published: 2026-06-17T16:31:00+00:00
Episode link: https://pdst.fm/e/tracking.swap.fm/track/t7yC0rGPUqahTF4et8YD/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/AMPP6314055576.mp3
Audio file: https://pdst.fm/e/tracking.swap.fm/track/t7yC0rGPUqahTF4et8YD/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/AMPP6314055576.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2901

## Resource

Ara Kharazian is the lead economist at Ramp. Kharazian joins Big Technology to discuss how much companies are actually spending on AI and whether that spending is producing real value. Tune in to hear why Anthropic has overtaken OpenAI among businesses, how AI spending varies dramatically from company to company, and whether “tokenmaxing” is really happening. We also cover Anthropic’s clash with the White House, the resurgence of DeepSeek, Google’s underrated position in AI, and whether the predicted SaaS apocalypse is materializing. Hit play for a data-driven look at which AI narratives are real, which are exaggerated, and where business adoption goes next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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## Transcript

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