# The Military is Trapped Between Fascism and Civil War | Ep. 57

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bang-bang-podcast-7028254/the-military-is-trapped-between-fascism-and-civil-war-ep-57
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bang-bang-podcast-7028254/the-military-is-trapped-between-fascism-and-civil-war-ep-57.md
Podcast: [Bang-Bang Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/bang-bang-podcast-7028254)
Published: 2026-01-25T18:11:21+00:00
Episode link: https://www.bangbangpod.com/p/the-military-is-trapped-between-fascism
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/185698992/694e1e6be80142e13e5a44485238218a.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/bang-bang-podcast-7028254/episodes/the-military-is-trapped-between-fascism-and-civil-war-ep-57
Duration seconds: 1567

## Resource

Do US troops have a threshold for the kind of unlawful order they’re unwilling to follow? If Venezuela wasn’t a breaking point, is Greenland? Can the US have mid-term elections under martial law? Will troops fire on fellow Americans if ordered? And why is the permanent war economy at the root of everything from economic insecurity to America’s imperial boomerang in the form of ICE, National Guard deployments, and militarized policing? In this urgent behind-the-scenes episode, guest Jeremy Wattles joins Van Jackson and Lyle Jeremy Rubin to talk about all that and more. Available wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to check out our related work: Our coverage of The Siege , the 1998 film about martial law in New York: Our previous behind-the-scenes episode on America’s counter-revolutionary crisis: Van’s latest take on ICE and civil war: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.bangbangpod.com/subscribe

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## Transcript

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