# The No Treason Podcast Ep. 36: Moral vs. Legal, Exigency & the Jury of 12

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/badlands-media-5934327/the-no-treason-podcast-ep-36-moral-vs-legal-exigency-the-jury-of-12
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/badlands-media-5934327/the-no-treason-podcast-ep-36-moral-vs-legal-exigency-the-jury-of-12.md
Podcast: [Badlands Media](https://stenobird.com/podcast/badlands-media-5934327)
Published: 2026-06-22T06:15:12+00:00
Episode link: https://badlandsmedia.podbean.com/e/the-no-treason-podcast-ep-36-moral-vs-legal-exigency-the-jury-of-12/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ybz8jz6v7umrarrv/The_No_Treason_Podcast_ep_36_1_65j8j.mp3
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Duration seconds: 3766

## Resource

Jonathan Drake is still long winded, Section Two of Spooner's "Natural Law" is still just one paragraph, and yet somehow this takes an entire episode. Predictably, it earns every minute. The central distinction of the night is one that sounds simple until you think about it: being illegal is always immoral, but being immoral is not always illegal. Legal violations empower the executioner. Moral violations empower your neighbors to stop returning your calls. Meting out the punishment reserved for one in the case of the other is itself a short circuit. Jonathan then turns to the concept of exigency, arguing that justice delayed is justice denied, and that the modern legal system's bloat and cost are not accidental. The episode closes with a deep dive into Kian vs. Florida, a SCOTUS case challenging whether a six-person jury satisfies the constitutional guarantee, and Florida's breathtaking response: overturning the precedent would jeopardize 90% of federal civil verdicts. Jonathan's take? That is precisely the point.

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## Transcript

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