# Ep. 172: The "Four Rs" of Australian foreign policy

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/australia-in-the-world-335013/ep-172-the-four-rs-of-australian-foreign-policy
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/australia-in-the-world-335013/ep-172-the-four-rs-of-australian-foreign-policy.md
Podcast: [Australia in the World](https://stenobird.com/podcast/australia-in-the-world-335013)
Published: 2025-11-27T19:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://australiaintheworld.podbean.com/e/ep-172-the-four-rs-of-australian-foreign-policy/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/2v2t38bwf6tgzhfg/AITW_ep_172.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/australia-in-the-world-335013/episodes/ep-172-the-four-rs-of-australian-foreign-policy
Duration seconds: 4295

## Resource

Darren is joined by returning guest Richard Maude to unpack what Australian foreign policy looks like in late 2025. The conversation centres on Foreign Minister Penny Wong’s recent AIIA speech, which Darren argues—mostly with Richard’s agreement—marks a clear evolution in Australia’s foreign policy doctrine. The traditional three pillars — alliance, region, and rules — have been replaced by a new framework, the "Four Rs": Region, Relationships, Rules, and Resilience. The discussion explores what this shift reveals about how Canberra sees the world today, and what it tells us about Australia’s strategic priorities as the international environment becomes more volatile. Together, they assess how well the government is executing each of the “Four Rs” in practice — from strengthening ties across Southeast Asia and the Pacific, to managing the alliance with an unpredictable Washington, stabilising relations with Beijing, and linking foreign policy more overtly with domestic resilience. They ask whether Australia is being suitably ambitious in shaping the regional security environment, or whether it risks becoming over-focused on Southeast Asia at the expense of alliance leadership and broader coordination with partners like Japan, Korea and Europe. Darren and Richard also grapple with Australia–China relations. Is Canberra being too cautious in public language — or sensibly risk-averse? Darren frames the question as whether the greater risk currently lies in under-reacting to the threat posed by China, or in over-reacting. And how should Australia manage economic dependence on China given the limits of diversification and the “iron laws” of trade? The fourth R is resilience, and they discuss whether tying domestic policy to foreign policy is a strength or a political trap.…

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## Transcript

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