# The Odyssey Books 11-12 with Luke Heintschel and Dr. Grabowski

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379/the-odyssey-books-11-12-with-luke-heintschel-and-dr-grabowski
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379/the-odyssey-books-11-12-with-luke-heintschel-and-dr-grabowski.md
Podcast: [Ascend - The Great Books Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379)
Published: 2026-06-02T11:45:00+00:00
Episode link: http://mcidfrxn.podcastwebsites.com/episodes/the-odyssey-books-11-12-with-luke-heintschel-and-dr-grabowski
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/7092a02b-9df1-40a1-8cfa-dbca10e30aeb.mp3
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Duration seconds: 6575

## Resource

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick discusses Books 11-12 of the Odyssey with Dr. Frank Grabowski and Mr. Luke Heintschel, the Academic Headmaster of Coeur du Christ Academy. Check out Ascend's LIBRARY of written guides and SOCIAL MEDIA . Check out Luke's Substack at CoCrucified and Dr. Grabowski's at Porch & Altar . Summary Listeners are taken on Odysseus’ harrowing katabasis into the underworld, where he confronts shades of the dead, including his mother, the tragic Agamemnon, and especially Achilles, whose devastating reflection on glory versus life delivers one of the most “blood on the floor” moments in Western literature. The conversation masterfully unpacks themes of piety, humanization, fate and free will, and the meaning of a well-lived life, while drawing illuminating connections to Plato, Dante, Boethius, and the Christian tradition. The discussion continues into Book 12 with the irresistible Sirens, the terror of Scylla and Charybdis, and the fateful transgression with the Cattle of the Sun. Throughout, the guests offer sharp insight into Odysseus’s evolving character, the tensions between cunning and virtue, and why these ancient stories remain essential for forming minds today. Whether you’re a longtime lover of Homer or new to the Great Books, this episode delivers rich intellectual conversation, pedagogical wisdom, and profound reflections that will leave you eager to pick up the text—or re-read it with fresh eyes. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast 06:01 Exploring the Odyssey: Books 11 and 12 12:54 The Theme of Descent into the Underworld 16:57 Elpenor's Ignoble Death and Its Significance 23:42 Tiresias and the Prophecies for Odysseus 31:43 Fate vs. Free Will in the Odyssey 38:29 The Role of Women in…

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