# Purgatorio: Envy and Wrath (Cantos 13-17) with Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379/purgatorio-envy-and-wrath-cantos-13-17-with-dr-jessica-hooten-wilson
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379/purgatorio-envy-and-wrath-cantos-13-17-with-dr-jessica-hooten-wilson.md
Podcast: [Ascend - The Great Books Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/ascend-the-great-books-podcast-6733379)
Published: 2026-03-03T11:30:00+00:00
Episode link: http://mcidfrxn.podcastwebsites.com/episodes/purgatorio-envy-and-wrath-cantos-13-17-with-dr-jessica-hooten-wilson
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/fd51c89c-4b38-43d9-b128-962cabd07b47.mp3
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Duration seconds: 5553

## Resource

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson of Pepperdine University discuss cantos 13-17 of Dante's Purgatorio --the purging of envy and wrath. Check out our 51 question and answer guide (35 pages!) to the Purgatorio . Check out our YOUTUBE page which has our episodes in playlists! Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to discuss Cantos 13–17, covering the terraces of envy (Canto 13) and wrath (Cantos 14–17), with a strong focus on the central discourses in the middle of the Comedy. In Canto 13, the envious have their eyelids sewn shut with iron wire, a contrapasso that forces them to rely on others and recognize interdependence. Wilson explains: “envy is to look cross-eyed on another's blessings... to look askance,” and the disembodied voices proclaim examples of generosity (Cana, “I am Orestes,” “Love them from whom you’ve suffered evil”), teaching a mindset of abundance over scarcity (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). Sapia humbly confesses her envy and malice, contrasting with the divisive souls in Inferno. Cantos 14–15 transition to wrath, with visions of meekness (Mary and Joseph seeking Jesus, a tyrant sparing a youth, Stephen forgiving his stoners) and Virgil’s discourse on goods: exhaustible earthly goods versus inexhaustible spiritual ones. Wilson notes: “envy stems from a mindset of scarcity versus Mary’s mindset of abundance... able to supply where it looks like there’s not enough in the world” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). The pivotal Canto 16 (the exact midpoint of the Comedy) features Marco Lombardo’s sermon on free will: “If the present world has gone astray, the cause is in you, look at yourselves” (Marco via transcript). Wilson calls it “the clearest sermon that Dante has about what’s wrong…

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## Transcript

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