# Confusion and Curiosity | Chapter 4 of "Atlas of the Heart"

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/around-the-circle-an-enneagram-channel-86508/confusion-and-curiosity-chapter-4-of-atlas-of-the-heart
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/around-the-circle-an-enneagram-channel-86508/confusion-and-curiosity-chapter-4-of-atlas-of-the-heart.md
Podcast: [Around the Circle | An Enneagram Channel](https://stenobird.com/podcast/around-the-circle-an-enneagram-channel-86508)
Published: 2026-07-13T15:05:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.aroundthecircle.org/episodes/
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/ef3615fd-e26c-4147-b7cb-d98f47f50256.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2018

## Resource

Join the Reading Room: HERE Around the Circle members are invited to our live Tuesday evening discussions as we work through books that deepen our understanding of the Enneagram and the inner life. ___ What happens when we stop trying to have all the answers? In this episode of Reading Room , Jeff Cook continues through Chapter Four of Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart , exploring the emotions that arise when life stretches beyond our understanding: awe, wonder, confusion, curiosity, interest, and surprise . The conversation examines why awe reconnects us to the natural world, why confusion may be one of the most important conditions for learning, and why curiosity is not simply a feeling but perhaps one of the great human virtues. Along the way, Jeff reflects on philosophy, science, education, weight training, Einstein, Oppenheimer, and the Enneagram to ask a deeper question: What if growth begins not with better answers, but with better questions? This episode also marks a personal shift. After years of teaching, writing, and producing content built around providing answers, Jeff shares why he believes the next season of his work will be centered on curiosity, conversation, and learning alongside others rather than speaking from certainty. Join us as we continue working through Chapter 4 of Atlas of the Heart and consider what it means to become people who embrace wonder, welcome confusion, and cultivate the courage to remain curious.

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## Transcript

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