# Was it Worth it, Pam?

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/amicus-with-dahlia-lithwick-law-justice-and-the-courts-512420/was-it-worth-it-pam
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/amicus-with-dahlia-lithwick-law-justice-and-the-courts-512420/was-it-worth-it-pam.md
Podcast: [Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts](https://stenobird.com/podcast/amicus-with-dahlia-lithwick-law-justice-and-the-courts-512420)
Published: 2026-04-04T07:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://shows.acast.com/amicus-with-dahlia-lithwick-law-justice-and-the-courts/episodes/69d02e1eac25e4bf66ae2bc2
Audio file: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/695ea2381c1db1c5bdf7c59b/e/69d02e1eac25e4bf66ae2bc2/media.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/amicus-with-dahlia-lithwick-law-justice-and-the-courts-512420/episodes/was-it-worth-it-pam
Duration seconds: 3183

## Resource

It was a rough week for two of the top lawyers in the Trump administration, and it couldn’t happen to a nicer pair ... Ever since Donald Trump’s return to office and the installation of his (second choice) Attorney General, we’ve been tracking the toxic combination of incompetence and cruelty at the Department of Justice. Pam Bondi, Trump’s hand-picked attack dog for Attorney General, finally reached the point of no return. She’s out, and Todd Blanche is in … for now. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discuss AG Bondi’s legacy, and why she may still be dragged before congress to answer for the DOJ’s mishandling of the Epstein Files. Meanwhile, over at One, First Street, Mr. Trump became the first sitting president to show up live and in person to oral arguments, in a woefully misguided possible attempt to intimidate “his” justices into buying his nonsensical theory about birthright citizenship. John Sauer, his Solicitor General, flopped and flailed, and revealed a fundamental flaw at the heart of the second Trump presidency: if loyalty is the only test, you might fail a bunch of other, more significant, tests. Finally, Dahlia and Mark unpack the thorny and confusing 8-1 decision from the High Court in Chiles v. Salazar , taking a huge bite out of conversion therapy bans, and what that means for LGBTQ youth and the First Amendment.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify . Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podc…

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## Transcript

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