# Notion's CEO on if AI is really killing software companies

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/access-7488327/notion-s-ceo-on-if-ai-is-really-killing-software-companies
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/access-7488327/notion-s-ceo-on-if-ai-is-really-killing-software-companies.md
Podcast: [ACCESS](https://stenobird.com/podcast/access-7488327)
Published: 2026-02-19T14:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/257/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP9139762004.mp3?updated=1771465313
Audio file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/257/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP9139762004.mp3?updated=1771465313
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/access-7488327/episodes/notion-s-ceo-on-if-ai-is-really-killing-software-companies
Duration seconds: 4507

## Resource

Ellis tells Alex about his storytelling speech for AI founders at Andreessen Horowitz, and they discuss how OpenAI beat Meta to hire the founder of OpenClaw. Then they’re joined by Notion co-founder and CEO Ivan Zhao to talk about the rise of AI agents. They discuss building custom agents inside Notion, his own AI workflow, why he's focused on hiring young people, and why he thinks every software company needs to become agent-friendly to survive. Follow ACCESS on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/accesspodcast/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Alex: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sources.news/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/alexeheath/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ellis: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://meaning.company/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/hamburger⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ACCESS is produced in partnership with the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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## Transcript

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